Hey Barkalarks
Dec. 8th, 2011 02:08 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
potato_headA somewhat belated response to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ocelotofdoom's excellent tumblr post. Okay, pretty belated. I know I don't need an excuse but I have one anyway! I had three presentations this week, woke up in a bad mood that didn't go away for several days, and also my back violently disapproved of something I did Sunday and I'm still not 100%. Incidentally, that mini-shitstorm is why I haven't really been making any posts at all. Too busy sewing, listening to Miku on repeat, and taking alleve.
So originally this was a pretty big post and I had like a third of it finished and then I stepped away and LJ lost it all on me. I still want to talk about this though but I think new version!post will be more concise.
Here's something that happens: there are people within communities primarily driven by self-identification (looking at groups like the queer spectrum, trans* communities, otherkin/therians, and even subcultures like geeks) that take to judging who's 'for real' and who's 'just looking for attention'.
You've probably seen this in action before. It can sound like this:
"She only pretends to be bi for attention - I've only ever seen her with guys."
"Sure, there might be some real nonbinary people out there, but most people who call themselves 'genderqueer' are just looking for queer cred."
"Yes, I'm a mythical beast, but anybody who claims to be a fictional character just wants to feel special."
And so on.
So yeah. This is bad. Poisonous to the community. Cut out the Judgey McJudgerson behavior.
But some people really are co-opting our identities for attention!
Yup! Undoubtedly, some people really are doing this. Frankly I am of the opinion that it is a MUCH LOWER number than so many seem to believe, but that's irrelevant, because regardless, you have no idea if an individual person is doing that or not.
No really. I promise you, there is no way to tell. Here's why: some people are just naturally attention seekers, or engage in other behavior that appears to people like attention-seeking, and that doesn't invalidate their identity. Yeah, it might look like that kid who has never kissed a guy in his life and goes on and on about how he's gay is looking for attention. He may or may not be. Even if he is, that doesn't mean he's not also gay. There are plenty of people who look for attention because they are straight, white, Christian, or of any other privileged group. Being an attention-seeker or engaging in attention-seeking behavior is not mutually exclusive to belonging to a minority or other sort of group, and although you personally might disapprove of that trait, it's no reason to oust them from the community.
And yeah, I am aware of those who claim they know someone (usually a bisexual girl) who has admitted it's 'all for attention'. I have never had anybody admit this to me myself, but I will give these people the benefit of the doubt. I still think caution should be exercised in judging these supposed professed 'posers', because they may have been in denial, thought they needed to protect themselves from a potentially negative reaction from you, or any number of things.
So yeah, there are, I am sure, those out there who co-opt identities for their own entertainment and to get attention for it. But for the most part, I assure you, you really don't know who these people are, and accusing people of it willy-nilly is just divisive and accomplishes nothing, since these co-opters are offensive but not harmful.
Not harmful?? But they reflect badly on the community! They're the reason privileged people/outsiders accuse us all of just being attention-seekers and try to invalidate our identities as a whole!
No, they are not.
No, really really, they're not.
Not convinced? I guess that's fair. Okay, here's the thing. "You're just trying to be 'different'/looking for attention" is one of the first lines of attack privileged people tend to come at self-identified minorities with, and they do that regardless of whether or not they have reason to believe it. It is simply the mental stance of many people who have never had to be 'different' that anyone who is 'different' has the choice not to be. This is how they justify their behavior and opinions. The conservatives who rattle on about gay being a 'choice' are not inspired by that kid you knew who grew out of being gay (I'm not putting quotation marks on that; yes, sexuality can change, that's not an indicator of a 'faker' either). First and foremost, they're thinking about the fact that the world is just and therefor nobody would be in a position to get so much negative attention unless that was what they wanted; and after that, that as long as it's a choice, they and their family are safe from something so unacceptable to them and their society.
Will they look for something to back this up? Yeah, sure. That's when they start grabbing testimonials from people who were 'cured' at gay camps, and bringing up the person they knew once who 'said they were bi and paraded it around' but is now in a socially-acceptable marriage. But even when they cannot find these examples, they still make this accusation.
If you don't believe me - just look at operative trans* people. Most reasonable people would say any trans* person who's undergone any sort of medical transition is probably not attention-seeking. (Note I am not saying they are necessarily making the right choice for themselves; it is TRUE that some people feel they made a mistake and decide to de-transition. Others de-transition for other reasons. No, that doesn't mean they were looking for attention. That's a pretty expensive and socially detrimental way to go about it.)
Despite this logic, however, a lot of people who are medically transitioning or have undergone medical transition are still accused of being 'special snowflakes' and 'looking for attention' by cis people. No really, a lot of them. If you really don't believe me on this, just go look for a few transphobic posts online and see how many accuse all trans people of this, or even specific trans* people who are or have undergone some sort of medical transition. And if you say 'those are just trolls, they don't really think that' then I will assume you are cis, because as a trans person I have had so many conversations IRL that sound exactly like that.
To wrap this up, I want to turn the spotlight for a moment on another group that people often hold up as evidence of 'attention-seekers in our ranks'. That would be people who at certain ages - usually high school or college age - identified with a group, but later felt they had never really fit the definition at all, and were just feeling like an outsider and looking for other outsiders to identify with. If you watch Family Guy, you've probably seen the episode that parodies this where Meg thinks she's a lesbian for a bit. Yeah, this definitely happens; I have friends who have gone through this. In fact, IMO it's a really normal thing for outsiders to do, and I have absolutely no problem with it. These are ages at which everyone is still figuring out where they belong, and there's also a strong drive to find a community one fits into. That's not the same as looking to appropriate an identity just to get attention. Also, IME some of these people end up being the best allies (although some of them also end up complete assholes, of course).
So yeah, I think that's all I have to say on that. Also, my back is feeling less stiff so break time is over, back to sewing!
ocelotofdoom's excellent tumblr post. Okay, pretty belated. I know I don't need an excuse but I have one anyway! I had three presentations this week, woke up in a bad mood that didn't go away for several days, and also my back violently disapproved of something I did Sunday and I'm still not 100%. Incidentally, that mini-shitstorm is why I haven't really been making any posts at all. Too busy sewing, listening to Miku on repeat, and taking alleve.So originally this was a pretty big post and I had like a third of it finished and then I stepped away and LJ lost it all on me. I still want to talk about this though but I think new version!post will be more concise.
Here's something that happens: there are people within communities primarily driven by self-identification (looking at groups like the queer spectrum, trans* communities, otherkin/therians, and even subcultures like geeks) that take to judging who's 'for real' and who's 'just looking for attention'.
You've probably seen this in action before. It can sound like this:
"She only pretends to be bi for attention - I've only ever seen her with guys."
"Sure, there might be some real nonbinary people out there, but most people who call themselves 'genderqueer' are just looking for queer cred."
"Yes, I'm a mythical beast, but anybody who claims to be a fictional character just wants to feel special."
And so on.
So yeah. This is bad. Poisonous to the community. Cut out the Judgey McJudgerson behavior.
But some people really are co-opting our identities for attention!
Yup! Undoubtedly, some people really are doing this. Frankly I am of the opinion that it is a MUCH LOWER number than so many seem to believe, but that's irrelevant, because regardless, you have no idea if an individual person is doing that or not.
No really. I promise you, there is no way to tell. Here's why: some people are just naturally attention seekers, or engage in other behavior that appears to people like attention-seeking, and that doesn't invalidate their identity. Yeah, it might look like that kid who has never kissed a guy in his life and goes on and on about how he's gay is looking for attention. He may or may not be. Even if he is, that doesn't mean he's not also gay. There are plenty of people who look for attention because they are straight, white, Christian, or of any other privileged group. Being an attention-seeker or engaging in attention-seeking behavior is not mutually exclusive to belonging to a minority or other sort of group, and although you personally might disapprove of that trait, it's no reason to oust them from the community.
And yeah, I am aware of those who claim they know someone (usually a bisexual girl) who has admitted it's 'all for attention'. I have never had anybody admit this to me myself, but I will give these people the benefit of the doubt. I still think caution should be exercised in judging these supposed professed 'posers', because they may have been in denial, thought they needed to protect themselves from a potentially negative reaction from you, or any number of things.
So yeah, there are, I am sure, those out there who co-opt identities for their own entertainment and to get attention for it. But for the most part, I assure you, you really don't know who these people are, and accusing people of it willy-nilly is just divisive and accomplishes nothing, since these co-opters are offensive but not harmful.
Not harmful?? But they reflect badly on the community! They're the reason privileged people/outsiders accuse us all of just being attention-seekers and try to invalidate our identities as a whole!
No, they are not.
No, really really, they're not.
Not convinced? I guess that's fair. Okay, here's the thing. "You're just trying to be 'different'/looking for attention" is one of the first lines of attack privileged people tend to come at self-identified minorities with, and they do that regardless of whether or not they have reason to believe it. It is simply the mental stance of many people who have never had to be 'different' that anyone who is 'different' has the choice not to be. This is how they justify their behavior and opinions. The conservatives who rattle on about gay being a 'choice' are not inspired by that kid you knew who grew out of being gay (I'm not putting quotation marks on that; yes, sexuality can change, that's not an indicator of a 'faker' either). First and foremost, they're thinking about the fact that the world is just and therefor nobody would be in a position to get so much negative attention unless that was what they wanted; and after that, that as long as it's a choice, they and their family are safe from something so unacceptable to them and their society.
Will they look for something to back this up? Yeah, sure. That's when they start grabbing testimonials from people who were 'cured' at gay camps, and bringing up the person they knew once who 'said they were bi and paraded it around' but is now in a socially-acceptable marriage. But even when they cannot find these examples, they still make this accusation.
If you don't believe me - just look at operative trans* people. Most reasonable people would say any trans* person who's undergone any sort of medical transition is probably not attention-seeking. (Note I am not saying they are necessarily making the right choice for themselves; it is TRUE that some people feel they made a mistake and decide to de-transition. Others de-transition for other reasons. No, that doesn't mean they were looking for attention. That's a pretty expensive and socially detrimental way to go about it.)
Despite this logic, however, a lot of people who are medically transitioning or have undergone medical transition are still accused of being 'special snowflakes' and 'looking for attention' by cis people. No really, a lot of them. If you really don't believe me on this, just go look for a few transphobic posts online and see how many accuse all trans people of this, or even specific trans* people who are or have undergone some sort of medical transition. And if you say 'those are just trolls, they don't really think that' then I will assume you are cis, because as a trans person I have had so many conversations IRL that sound exactly like that.
To wrap this up, I want to turn the spotlight for a moment on another group that people often hold up as evidence of 'attention-seekers in our ranks'. That would be people who at certain ages - usually high school or college age - identified with a group, but later felt they had never really fit the definition at all, and were just feeling like an outsider and looking for other outsiders to identify with. If you watch Family Guy, you've probably seen the episode that parodies this where Meg thinks she's a lesbian for a bit. Yeah, this definitely happens; I have friends who have gone through this. In fact, IMO it's a really normal thing for outsiders to do, and I have absolutely no problem with it. These are ages at which everyone is still figuring out where they belong, and there's also a strong drive to find a community one fits into. That's not the same as looking to appropriate an identity just to get attention. Also, IME some of these people end up being the best allies (although some of them also end up complete assholes, of course).
So yeah, I think that's all I have to say on that. Also, my back is feeling less stiff so break time is over, back to sewing!
