words that mean things

[potato_head]

So there's this phrase that goes around the internet a lot - 'herp derp' and its various derivatives (including 'hurr durr' and so on). It's really common even among people who are otherwise pretty sensitive to issues of oppression, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out why, except that people really honestly think it's a benign term that originated on the internet? Maybe due to having attended school with peers who weren't quite so blatantly ableist as mine, so they've never seen it in...full action, as it were.

Okay, so...to be clear...this phrase, or rather onomatopoeia (because that's what it is) is not new. It did not originate with whatever meme or TV show people often try to trace it back to. It was around when I was in elementary school, and my dad was familiar with it so I'm pretty sure it goes back a good deal further than that. TBH, common phrases like 'duh' were probably derived from it. (I'm not going to tell anybody not to use 'duh', mostly because...that's pretty much restricted to kids under 14 I think lmfao)

It's meant to imitate verbalizations made by a mentally disabled person, and is usually accompanied by flailing ones hands against ones chest in the way often seen in autistic and other neuroatypical people, as well as staring off into middle distance/at the ceiling/tilting the head towards the floor. Basically, it's the verbal part of a complete imitation of a mentally disabled person, and is used in place of and as a synonym for the r-word. And yes, just the noise/phrase itself is also used on its own IRL, or just with a few hand-flaps.

To me, personally, it's actually more hurtful than the r-word, since it's what I was attacked with as a kid. You could get in trouble in my school for using the r-word, but not for responding to a 'stupid' remark with a full-on imitation of a disabled kid instead. I cringe inside every time I see people casually throwing around 'herp derp' or going on about their right to demand that a character in MLP be called 'Derpy'. But I don't feel like I can say anything, because invariably people are convinced that 'it just means stupid' or 'it's just a joke'.

I don't even really know how to voice my thoughts on that...just that 'jokes' like this are a large part of why I worry about whether I'm coming across as 'too autistic' in class, and suppress my hand-flapping even though nobody ever made me, and am so embarrassed to discuss my autism that any conversation about it with an allistic person usually results in me scratching up my arms later.

This post was kind of difficult for me. To understand, I had it mostly written up a few weeks ago, then ended up trashing the whole thing because I didn't want to be that angry autistic person. But I think that kind of reaction on my part is a big reason why I needed to write this, for my own sake. Even though I still feel really self-conscious and squirmy about it.

Comments

[pwalkeri.livejournal.com]

Negl, it's taken me a long time to come around to really understanding what people are saying about "herp a derp". I hadn't heard "herp a derp" until I started seeing (Reddit?) memes online, and it was always about a blond chick, so I thought it was a blonde-moment reference. Literally, and regardless how naive that sounds, that's what I thought it was.

But then it started popping up all over Tumblr, and there were all of these really emotional entries about how the term makes people feel and how it's been used to hurt them in the past, etc etc.

Jokes are only jokes when they're funny, and if they're hurting people, they're not funny. Or at least not appropriate for public consumption. I still find stuff (of any variety) funny/clever that is not fit for public consumption and therefore doesn't get posted to a general audience. I have a few facetious friends I can share that stuff with.

I think it takes a lot of courage to post something like this and I would hope that since you're being so open, that it really makes people think (if any of this applies to your FL). Because it is really important to think about who we affect with marginalizing language.

I have a million more thoughts, but this is already getting pretty long. ♥

[poto-heart.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Honestly, it took me a long time to realize people really didn't know where it came from...it's pretty ubiquitous around here, even moreso than using 'gay' in a derogatory way, and whenever somebody insisted it originated online my response was pretty much 'lol yeah okay, have you never encountered a high school kid in your life?' but I'm starting to get that this sort of thing vs. the use of the r-word is a really regional thing because of attitudes towards ableism and how authority figures handle it...'sped' was also used as an r-word alternative in our school because all the teachers cared about was that people didn't use the r-word.


Or at least not appropriate for public consumption.

Yessss. Exactly this. I, personally, have trouble finding most stereotype-based jokes funny (probably because I'm so literal more than anything) BUT I do use words - especially with my immediate family - that I wouldn't use with a general audience, and there are opinions that I hold that are valid but I recognize should be kept to discussions with people I know very well. There are just some things that are only appropriate to an audience who you know 1. won't be hurt by it and/or 2. won't misunderstand you to be supporting oppression/take you to be supporting their own bigotry.


I like your thoughts! FEEL FREE TO SHARE AS MANY THOUGHTS AS YOU LIKE ♥

Also my hands are covered in food coloring right now because to calm down after posting this I went and kneaded food coloring into dough. For the Avengers-themed cookies I am making. They're going to be epic, just FYI.

[pwalkeri.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think it must be regional, because I hadn't heard it until recently, and a high school teacher friend of mine just start hearing it not too long ago. And I'm assuming "sped" was "special ed" shortened?

Yeah, I totally agree. I tend to compare it to rape culture and bullshit that people say about rape. Take gamers for example: they say shit like "I just raped that game" or whatever ALL THE TIME. I don't hang out with my partner's specific gamer friends because they will make those comments all night, because it's acceptable and because they are not actually going to rape anyone. That is the culture in that atmosphere and me swinging in on my Humanist Horse to right the wrongs is... pointless. They have those interactions and they don't directly affect me, so I have NO RIGHT to control what they say. However, if my partner and I go out to dinner with them, you better believe I have a right to tell them not to say that shit around me. But I don't get to tell them to NEVER say it. Because, sure, maybe they are being oppressive, or maybe they're secretly rapist assholes, but context is everything and context rules in one situation aren't global.

I mean, I have no need to control what people say in their own homes or with their groups of friends, and I don't think if they say "I raped that test" or whatever that they're horrible, monstrous people with whom I should never interact again. I just don't want them saying it around me. There is a huge difference, and one that I feel that most people forget to make (unless they do think someone's an asshole for ever using any marginalizing language... in which case that's incredibly ridiculous because EVERY marginalizes someone. "Acceptance of everyone" is not a badge you get for being part of ONE of the marginalized minorities.)

It's taken me the better part of 2 years to really find a place with any of this marginalized language stuff that I'm comfortable with. But that's where I finally settled. I'm allowed to think/feel/laugh about/at whatever I want to without being a total fucking asshole, but that doesn't mean I get to blast it all over the internet or get into a fight with people about who has more right to what. That's why my pic!spams are stuff that I think everyone will find humorous (except for the few times I've missed things) because it's only funny if it's not hurtful to somebody.

I AM PRETTY SURE I KEEP SAYING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER BUT THAT'S HOW MY BRAIN WORKS.

OMGGG Avengers!cookies. You better be posting them because I want to eat them vicariously through you. OMNOMNOM.

[poto-heart.livejournal.com]

Re: Gamers - yesss. Although it is a kind of tricky situation because I think the casual use of 'rape' in gamer subculture is a reflection of rape culture...I don't think it perpetuates it. It's a subculture based around faux violence; the context there is very different, even if it is an extension of our own culture.

IDEK where I was going with this. I AGREE.


I will be posting. So many pictures. I already took pictures just of the process of coloring the dough with food coloring because...IT SEEMED EXCITING???

[cowgirl524.livejournal.com]

I hope you don't mind, but I some times read the petbulls friends' page when I'm bored or at work, so I am sorry if this seems out of nowhere. I just wanted to say thank you for this post! I had no idea what "herp derp" meant, I'd never heard it in real life where I live, nor do I know people who use it in conversation. I would have hated to hurt or offend someone, and after reading your post, I understand what it means and how offensive it is, and I will tell anyone I hear using this term what it means and that it is hurtful. I don't know anyone I could have asked what it meant either, so as a random stranger on the internet, thank you for posting this. :-) I hope I haven't offended you by commenting on your entry, and if I have, I am truly sorry.

[poto-heart.livejournal.com]

Oh! No, I don't mind at all c: I'm glad I've helped ♥

[darkangel-wings.livejournal.com]

It really wasn't until the stuff about MLP and a lot of tumblr stuff that I understood how hurtful the word/s could be or how they were used to be hurtful. Personally, I still don't understand why people are so upset about being asked not to use it. I'd rather change something I say than inadvertently hurt someone else. I mean, it really isn't going to ruin my day to not say "derp."

And I think the point made above is a really good one... that saying things on a public forum is way different than saying things to people you're close with. The "well, my autistic friend [black friend/gay friend/female friend/physically disabled friend/etc.] isn't offended!" defense really grates on me for just that reason... your token friend may not be hurt, but that doesn't mean no one else is or should be.

[etirabys.livejournal.com]

Oh. I didn't know where that had come from at all. D:

Thanks for making the post.